Ep. 46: How to Talk to Kids About Climate Change (and Understand It Yourself)

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (00:00.716)
If understanding climate change feels confusing or overwhelming, there’s a reason for that. There are lots of reasons for that. And most of us were never taught how to understand the connections and the systems behind it. So today we’re going to start connecting those dots. Welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs, a podcast for the eco curious who want to live a greener life and are looking for a place to start. I’m your host, Sarah Robertson Barnes, a soccer mom with a station wagon and a passion for sustainable living.

Each week I’ll bring you practical tips and honest conversations to help you waste less, save money, and make small doable shifts that actually fit your real life. Because sustainable living doesn’t have to be perfect to matter, and you don’t have to do it all to make a difference. Hello, and welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs, the podcast where we start where we are, use what we have, and live a little greener, one small shift at a time. My name is Sarah, and I’m so pleased to be spending time with you today.

Brittany Jefferson (00:44.846)
you

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (00:59.23)
And if this podcast has become a part of your week, the absolute best way to support it is by leaving a rating or review wherever you’re listening today. You can also click support the show down in the show notes and of course, share your favorite episode with your networks. And if we’re not already connected on social media, you can find me on most things at Sarah Robertson Barnes, or you can find the link to my newsletter blog and how to get in touch with me in the show notes.

We spend most of our time here on this show talking about what we can do to live more sustainably, the swaps, the habits, the small shifts in our homes and our day-to-day lives. And those things matter, but they’re also only a smaller piece of a bigger puzzle because the climate crisis we are facing is really about systems. And if we don’t understand how those systems work and are connected, it’s really hard to understand what’s happening and where we fit into it and how we can change it for a greener future for all.

But if you think about it, most of us weren’t really taught this in school, not in a way that connects earth science to history, politics, colonialism, and people’s current lived experiences. And having that fuller picture makes it a lot easier to make sense of what’s happening and to feel confident in what we’re doing and why moving forward. So today we’re stepping back a bit and talking about climate literacy, what it actually means.

why it matters and how it shapes the way we green our homes, our communities, and even in the day-to-day conversations we’re having. Part of that foundation is environmental justice. Who is included in these conversations? Who isn’t? And what changes when we start looking at climate through that lens? This is a bigger picture conversation, but it connects really directly to our everyday lives, especially if you’re raising kids.

navigating school systems, or just trying to understand how all of this fits together in a way that feels useful for you and the climate action you take every day. So today I’m joined by the incredible Brittany Jefferson, an educator and environmentalist working at the intersection of climate literacy and environmental justice and school systems. She is the founder of EJEDU, where she focuses on bringing sustainability into education in a way that actually reflects how the world works.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (03:20.128)
not as a separate topic, but as something that connects across both school subjects and the larger systems that we live in. Her work looks closely at the gaps in how we teach and talk about climate, from the way education systems prioritize testing over deeper understanding, to how siloing subjects can leave students without context for the full picture. And at the core of it is this idea that climate literacy isn’t something extra, it’s foundational.

Here’s my conversation with Brittany Jefferson.

Hey, Brittany, welcome to the show. I’m really glad that we are going to have this conversation today.

Brittany Jefferson (03:57.89)
Hi, Sarah. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited for us to chat.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (04:01.474)
Yeah, even though we’re a Dodgers fan and a Blue Jays fan, we can come together on some common ground.

Brittany Jefferson (04:09.036)
Yes, we can. We could definitely agree that it was the most exciting World Series, right?

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (04:14.328)
I’m not over it. I’ll never be over it. My heart rate still watching the games doesn’t know it’s not game seven in the 12th inning or whatever.

Brittany Jefferson (04:23.554)
Yes. So your sports nervous system is still in fight or flight. Got it.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (04:26.688)
Yeah, not recovered from that eight teeth inning, but well played. Okay. So we also actually share a background in education. I used to be a high school teacher and I’ve taught science, chemistry and biology, and also like world religions and other types of history. So even though folks think those are really separate, they’re actually deeply connected ideas. And that’s why your work really resonates with me.

Brittany Jefferson (04:53.452)
Yeah, I’m super excited for us to talk about that. Yeah, it’s been a while since you and I have actually got to like work together. Right. Yeah. So like, it’s very awesome that we can, you know, come together and finally talk, you know, just the two of us and like talk more about how our worlds have kind of been running parallel for these few years.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (05:03.118)
So, I thinking about that.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (05:16.652)
Yeah, the thing that we did a STEM summit for Earth Month back in 2020, which feels like 500 years ago now. But I followed along with you ever since because your work really challenges the way that I think about the world and what I was taught and makes me want to dig deeper. So can you introduce yourself to the listeners and tell us about the work that you do?

Brittany Jefferson (05:38.232)
Yeah, so I’m Brittany Jefferson. I am a former classroom teacher and environmentalist, current environmentalist. I am also the CEO and founder of EJEDU, which is an education consulting services company where I am filling the gaps of public education currently in and throughout LA County, aligned with the 17 principles of environmental justice. A lot of the work that I do

talks about how climate literacy and sustainability, anything related to human impact, can be integrated throughout all subject areas. And so I spend a lot of time on social media and in schools, educating both students and staff on developing their climate literacy and how we each as individuals, no matter what our passions are and our careers, can find a place in the climate movement that

fits within the context of our lives.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (06:36.236)
Yes, I’m always talking about that. You have a specific path and we’re all kind of going in the same general direction. So when you think about the way that climate change is currently taught, typically taught or not taught, what feels the most missing to you right now?

Brittany Jefferson (06:54.476)
I think the most missing is social studies. I do, think social sciences are the thing that we, it’s kind of like the blind spot. think when we think of climate literacy, we often, immediately go to environmental science, we immediately go to climate science and maybe earth science, depending on, know, the science teacher.

that you are depending on the standards that you’re required to teach, think. And it trickles occasionally into math and analyzing charts and things. But there is definitely a need for understanding how, throughout human history, the way the groups of humans and human societies have interacted with each other and the land and the major historical events that have shifted

the way humans interact with the land and our view of nature and the resources that Earth provides us, the role that human beings play in cultivating those resources, right? Or extracting those resources. And so, you know, I think it’s really important for us to be thinking critically about that.

And the way social science and history in general is taught is usually from, you know, very isolated events, right? You have these standards of like, these are the historical periods that you have to hit. And these are the things, the, you know, historical events that you have to cover. And it often lacks a lot of critical thinking and a lot of interconnectedness of like wondering how things happening in Europe are impacting the continent of Africa while also impacting the Western hemisphere and things like that. So.

Yeah. So that’s really, I think where I try to, and what makes EJEDU unique is that social, that human history aspect and how we are interacting with each other in the past and today as well, right? Including civic engagement in that and our government and like how our government works, you know, in the United States, like the stats are not looking great for just our American citizens knowing.

Brittany Jefferson (09:10.572)
and learning the structure, like the foundational structure of our government and how it’s supposed to work and how it was designed. And also how it has been utilized to like weaponize everyday people and working class people throughout, you know, United States history. And so I, yeah, those are the things that I really try to incorporate in the lessons and, you know, the things that I’m talking about online and

you know, with people in my life.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (09:43.438)
That’s really interesting. just thought of this, you we talk a lot about quote unquote the environment is like, we are not separate from it. We are part of it. And I think that the same is true of like you were just saying human events. Like we’re not outside of those things. We are inside of those things. So let’s really dig in on climate literacy. I think that a lot of us like more than ever, we really do care about climate change. I’m noticing more and more stories about it in mainstream outlets all the time. Whereas

when I was going through high school, like I was the weird tree hugger. So people are talking about it all the time. We see it, even if we’re not making the connections. And I think a lot of us really do want to take action on it, but we don’t really understand it. And we weren’t taught to understand it. I just think that shows up. Like I get confused. I get overwhelmed and I quote unquote, like know what’s happening, but it’s still just…

So in the state of the media in the year 2026 with headlines and social media and all these like bits and pieces coming in from everywhere, we need a clear foundation. Yeah. So let’s start there. Yeah. When you say climate literacy, what do you want people to actually understand about that term?

Brittany Jefferson (10:51.566)
Absolutely.

Brittany Jefferson (10:59.436)
Yeah, so climate literacy is a very simple and general term, which is just understanding human impact on Earth’s climate systems and vice versa. Part of it is understanding how balanced Earth systems work, right? When we think about the water cycle, the carbon cycle, and how ecosystems and biomes work together in different parts of the food web and the food chain and the reciprocity that is nature, right? Just like how

weather and climate works and what norms of weather and climate are in particular geographic areas and things like that. And then the other area of that is understanding how human impact has created an imbalance in Earth’s climate systems. And so our job when we are developing our climate literacy is not only understanding what balance Earth systems and the way Earth typically operates in order to be able to sustain complex life,

Right, but also what are the things that we are doing that are throwing the earth out of balance and how can we reference other historical peoples and cultural groups and thinking about how our dominant culture that we are currently living in in 2026, how it is antithetical to the balance of the earth. And so really just thinking critically about our practices and our built up

society and how that is impacting natural systems and what we can do in order to help those systems rebound because they’re capable of doing.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (12:30.508)
Yeah, I agree. If we can impact them negatively, then we can impact them positively as well. So you’re making those connections between Earth systems and then the systems that we have to live in, the politics and the economics and education, those connections. What happens when those connections aren’t made? What do you see filling in the gaps?

Brittany Jefferson (12:53.228)
I feel like when the connections aren’t made, we are okay with the status quo. And I think like in the United States in particular, Our economy is very rooted in consumption, right? And like we as everyday people, as working class people, we are viewed as consumers. And

You know, remember being a kid and just kind of asking my mom, like, why do we have to do taxes? Why do I have to have a job? Why do groceries come in these plastic bags? Right? Like just kind of asking questions about like why the world is the way it is. And I think that if we’re not really thinking critically about how our everyday practices are impacting the environment, right? Like then we…

It becomes very easy for us to stay siloed in our just like individual day to day lives and households.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (13:57.358)
That’s the biggest disconnect that I see in how climate is taught or not taught and how it actually shows up in the real world. So you even mentioned just being like really siloed into our own individual day-to-day existence. And so we’re missing even the connection piece between each other. Yeah. How much of that do you think comes back to the way that we are currently structuring education by like separating subjects, focusing on testing and not leaving any space for depth?

Brittany Jefferson (14:25.838)
I can go in on this for so long, Like, well, because the state of, right, the state of public education right now is in such a state of like crisis for multiple reasons.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (14:28.398)
Thanks.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (14:41.152)
Same here in Ontario, to be perfectly honest. We’re dealing with a lot of really deliberate defunding and the government is currently taking over school boards and it’s some wild stuff. I mean, there is connection between society. It’s called, back in the day, was called like society, technology, science and environment, something like that. It was just connected to real life, but that’s always the nice to have in the curriculum.

It’s never part of the specific, like the general requirements. We have three things, two or three things per subject that have to be taught. And then you have a pick and choose of specific requirements.

Brittany Jefferson (15:16.098)
Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (15:17.942)
never gets picked. Exactly.

Brittany Jefferson (15:20.142)
Exactly. you know, so I as you know, like where our education backgrounds differ is that you taught high school and so you were a single subject teacher. And so like I imagine that in high school, it the separation of each subject is much more stark than in elementary school. Because you know, as a multi subject teacher, I have the same kids all day and then I have control over the subjects and like the topics and the things that we’re teaching, how frequently we’re teaching in a week and

You know, things like that. And the struggle that I found is that, you know, the mound, the pile of tasks and the things that teachers are being asked to accomplish in a school day, in a school year, continues to increase and it gets higher while the supports that we have and that we need to be successful are continuing to be, you know, decreased. Right. We talked about defunding. It’s the same, you know, out here, like education is not

funded well at all. maybe like, I feel like Massachusetts is like the only state where like they take education seriously and like as a state, they make it a point to like fund. They have very high like per pupil funding. But the state of California does not. We’re pretty low on that list of per pupil funding. And so we have that aspect, right? Where like teachers are asked to do so much.

Then we have our no child left behind era, which made it so that we are obsessed with testing. so, you know, multiple times a year we’re doing benchmark testing to make sure, you know, we’re to measure growth and make sure that students are, you know, learning. And those tests focus on reading, writing and math, right? They’re rooted in those common core standards. And because of that siloed mentality, for some reason, like,

school leaders and textbook companies and curriculum companies, right? They took that and they said, okay, well, we’re going to focus on these skills and we’re not going to focus on like richness of text, richness of literature, right? We’re not going to focus on content knowledge and we’re teaching children isolated skills with no context. And like that is

Brittany Jefferson (17:44.532)
That goes against what child development and what everything we have learned in our teaching programs about how children learn, right? They make connections to schema. You grow and you expand your skillset and your knowledge set by making connections to things that you are already kind of familiar with, that you already experience. And so it makes a lot of sense for science and social studies to actually be really integral parts in our classroom instruction. Right.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (18:00.96)
scaffolding.

Brittany Jefferson (18:14.402)
But the tools that are needed in order for teachers to be able to do that is not really there. so then what we’re doing is we’re basically relying on individual teachers who have a passion for a certain subject or have a passion for a topic try to figure out how they can integrate those things into their content. And that’s essentially how I got to this point was I…

was in the classroom and, you I learned about climate change. I didn’t learn about like the climate crisis until college. It was not talked about really in high school.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (18:56.998)
I did have that teacher with the passion for it though. And in grade 10, she was like, coming up on a water crisis, y’all. She was stark about it. It was bleak. I don’t love that either, but she was like, it blew my mind and I’ve never been able to unknow that. But if I hadn’t had her…

Brittany Jefferson (19:14.412)
Exactly. Exactly. That’s my point, right? Because like when I started teaching and I would like ask his questions about, they under, you know, just like pollution, trash and waste, you know, plastic consumption and even, you know, just like healthy foods or, you know, our, our weather, especially in Southern California, like the biggest thing that we are experiencing, you know, wildfires gets a lot of attention, but what we are also experiencing is extreme heat. And so

You know, like I’m talking to my students and this is this is around 2014 when I first got into the classroom and like students were like climate change. What’s that? And so I was just like, you know, like as an educator and as a person, as an adult in your life, who is like my job is to prepare you for the next level. Like I felt as if I had a moral obligation, like I have a moral obligation to at least introduce this topic to you.

And so that, you know, after you leave my classroom, you’ll leave with, at the very least, you’ll leave with more questions that you might be willing and curiosity that you might be willing to tap into or that another teacher, you know, can hopefully tap into as well to continue to kind of build that. And then as my career started going on, kids would come knowing about it and they would know things about it. But then you’re navigating the mental health aspect of it. there were, there are certain years where I’m dealing with a lot of doomism.

Right? Like my most knowledgeable classes are tended to be the ones that were like, yeah, corporations suck. We can’t really trust the government. And so, you know, it’s Blake out here and like, that’s kind of it.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (20:56.238)
So I can’t do anything. So period. Dot, dot, dot.

Brittany Jefferson (21:00.694)
And so, depending on, when people talk about meeting your class where they are, that’s the attitude that I would take. And I would really just adapt our instruction in a way that helps students navigate these feelings and these mindsets and really empower them to imagine, well, what could it be like? What could things

Um, you know, what can we change or what are some things that you would see if you looked around and we lived in a society that valued sustainability, that valued balance and equality? Um, well, how, you know, what would that look like? And I worked with my grade level team to integrate climate literacy aspects and like human impact, just very simple human impact on earth.

throughout all of our subject areas. So we were able to do a climate change related topic or lesson in every subject. It took us a few years to kind of build out, but we built out this like beautiful scope and sequence that incorporated identity and US history and European colonialism and imperialism and geography.

We did math performance tasks about like the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. We would do argument writing related to, you know, banning plastic bottles or, you know, writing letters to politicians pro or against a new oil project or different things like that to really just get kids critically thinking about our societal systems and being able to kind of, you know, take that with them into their higher ed and

you know, just continue to have that kind of planted. Like as an adult, I still very much am impacted by the history teachers that I had, like my worldview and part of me even becoming an environmentalist and be so like staunchly, you know, anti-capitalist, right? Like came just from the way my U.S. history and government teacher like taught and had me think critically about monopolies, ownership, capital, all of those things.

Brittany Jefferson (23:26.286)
You know, like I saw, think that that’s really important. And I think that just. Education is a very underutilized solution. Right. We like immediately think of renewable tech or like we immediately think of like infrastructural things. And, you know, it’s like, well, you know, our politicians aren’t really making the choices that they need to make because are they climate literate? You know, like I’m listening to even Democratic politicians, even people that understand that climate change is real. I’m listening to them talk about it. And it’s like, but you.

You still don’t really understand the severity. You still don’t really understand the urgency. You’re still thinking that it’s a problem for the future.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (24:04.366)
And prioritizing the corporation.

Brittany Jefferson (24:08.416)
Exactly. And the status quo, essentially, you know, where it’s like, yeah, I understand we need to phase out fossil fuels, right, but it’s not realistic right now.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (24:16.462)
my god, remember when we were going to do it by 2025? And here we are. Wasn’t that cute? Yeah. Like I’m old enough to remember the Kyoto protocol.

Brittany Jefferson (24:25.208)
Yes, I’m not old enough to remember it like live

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (24:29.102)
I think I was in grade 10 maybe?

Brittany Jefferson (24:32.098)
I am old enough to remember how excited I was about the Paris Agreement though. I was like, finally. People are are acknowledging multiple nations come together and acknowledge that this is an issue that we need to address. And now here we are 11 years after the Paris Agreement and we’re not even in it anymore.

You know, even the many of the nations, like the largest polluting nations that are, you know, that agreed to this Paris agreement are like nowhere close to even meeting, meeting their goals and their targets. like.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (25:13.102)
I’m just nodding in Canadian. Yep. Even like with our guy now, like I could say it like a lot of these same things about Carney, like he’s really aware. He’s climate aware. He’s doing the thing, but we’re also doing a new pipeline. it’s just, yeah, I know when you really start to understand these things, so you can’t unknow them. Like I know for myself when I first dove into like quote unquote sustainability on Instagram, was all like cute swaps and

flat lays and all this, but as soon as you peel back that layer, you’re like, no, we need to dismantle capitalism and white supremacy and the oil industry and all these kinds of things. So it’s about systems and power and who is impacted and who isn’t. And I think that part doesn’t get talked about nearly enough, even in school. When we talk about environmental justice, can you tell us what that means and who is missing from those conversations?

Brittany Jefferson (26:14.606)
I refer to environmental justice specifically rather than climate justice for a reason. think that climate justice has been co-opted a bit. so like when we talk about mainstream conservation, right, we’re often, you know, when people refer to climate justice, they’re really just referring to a sustainable transition, away from like transitioning away from fossil fuels into a more renewable.

energy infrastructure, things like that. But environmental justice really in within that is the human beings that are also that have also been the cost of like developing our modern society. And so, you know, the environmental justice movement really kind of came.

during the civil rights movement, like those two things were kind of parallel because what was happening was multinational companies, they would go to these rural areas or they would go to impoverished areas, predominantly black and indigenous areas, and they would dump their waste negatively impacting soil and air quality and communities.

were coming together because they were seeing how this was impacting their health and their livelihood and communities were coming together to fight back and to hold companies accountable for these practices. so I think that that connection between, you know, conservation and sustainability and fighting for, you know, more modern

infrastructure that is less polluting and polluting practices and things like that, I think that we are missing the fact that there has and always has been a human cost to the development of our modern society. Environmental justice really is focusing on the people who are on the front lines of that human cost.

Brittany Jefferson (28:39.918)
The 17 principles of environmental justice, right, that were created in 1991 by a collection of people of color as a coalition and people like Jesse Jackson and Dr. Robert Bullard, they were there and they created these 17 principles as a roadmap, as a blueprint or a framework for addressing the systemic and societal

institutions and powers that are causing this level of harm. And, you know, the reason why that is like a founding document for me is because it talks about those things that, you you’re that you mentioned around like power and understanding corporations and, you know, corporate accountability. Like it’s not necessarily OK. Well, like all the company, all the multinational companies just have to go away.

But it’s like, no, you have to pay for the harm that you’ve caused.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (29:46.4)
It sucks less and we have that power.

Brittany Jefferson (29:49.472)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it’s like, you could be doing this differently. You’re choosing not to. And so now we have to go to the courts. Now we have to rally or now we have to advocate to stop, you know, not to approve building permits for another AI data center or, you know, to hold, you know, companies like Nestle and Coca-Cola, right? Like

the number one producers of like plastic. Like, okay, well now it’s your responsibility to clean it up. We’re surrounded by plastic. Exactly.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (30:23.246)
We can do this. It makes sense for all parties involved, but you’re actually incentivized to just throw shit away. Yeah.

Brittany Jefferson (30:36.216)
Yeah. And so, yeah, so that’s really like the difference to me in with environmental justice and climate justice is that it’s not just conservation. It’s not, and it’s not this, it’s not this blanket statement of like humans are destroying the environment, right? Because it’s not all humans, right? Not all groups of humans, not all humans are doing it to the same extent, right? Like in.

You know, even thinking about me, right, like as my identity as a black woman, I do understand. And like I have been, you know, exposed to different things and practices. Right. Like living in living in Los Angeles, living in a predominantly black neighborhood in Los Angeles with an oil and oil rig, like literally like in my backyard and, you know, experiencing the increased, you know,

like occurrences of asthma and other cardiovascular, right? Even with those things, I still as a middle-class American who is educated and right, like there are still levels of privilege that I have as, you know, a middle-class American, even as, you know, just the access to generational wealth that my family has been able to accrue, right? And so like,

it’s still important for me to understand that like as an American, my carbon footprint is larger than somebody else’s, than a lot of people living in the global South and other continents. And so, I wanted us to really talk about too, that individual, right? How that argument between individual action and like systemic action, right? There’s always like this either or debate.

And it’s kind of like, nah, if you’re an American, your individual practices are off the hook and you need to be doing some things in your household a little differently. Sorry, I’m sorry.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (32:37.154)
Yes, we can be doing better. Most of us, for the most part, can and should be doing better. And I try to be very gentle about that. And sometimes I don’t feel gentle about that. But it’s true. Like if you can think of, right, you can choose the kind of impact that you want to have. We make the hundreds of choices every single day. We don’t want to be inconvenienced. And those are different things. And you got to get real clear about that.

Brittany Jefferson (33:03.892)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (33:06.646)
Yeah. think that debate drives me crazy. Like, well, no, it’s just the corporations. Like, who is buying from the corporations?

Brittany Jefferson (33:14.19)
Who is keeping Amazon in business?

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (33:16.468)
Exactly. Yes. And then on the flip side, when people are like, I just, you know, I feel so bad that I got this takeout or whatever. like, you’re not Jeff Bezos. so I don’t know. Yeah, no, I. This right now.

Brittany Jefferson (33:32.75)
I completely understand that. I think there is such thing as like caring too much and thinking that too much is within your control. Kind of like how you were talking about how at first when you think of sustainability, it’s like cute swaps and it’s going zero waste, trying to fit your trash in a jar.

Or, you know, like on paper towels, like things like that. Right. But then there’s like this trajectory where then you start like the more you start learning about those things, but then the more you start listening to other people and, you know, reading and it’s like, and you start learning about the systems and you learn about, you know, the corporate role in the. You know, in our current circumstances.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (34:04.524)
Yeah.

Brittany Jefferson (34:26.666)
then it helps to kind of like release a little bit. Like I used to be, I used to be like very, very stressed about the amount of plastic waste in our house, the amount of like packaged food that we were eating and you know, our produce not being local or in season and you know, like being very particular about those things to a point where like I wasn’t feeding myself because I was too like guilt ridden. And like that’s not healthy either.

you know and

Exactly. Like it can be, and it’s also so inconvenient, know, so like driving way out of your way to find like a refill store. And it’s like, honestly, the amount of gas that I’m using, trying to, you know, so it definitely is like this balance of understanding that you as an individual are only, you’re only in control of so much while also understanding that like there are

choices and there are and like our attention and our time is needed in spaces and involving these, you know, topics that we’re not necessarily like giving it.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (35:45.624)
So once you start seeing the systems, we’ve touched on this very heavily, but you can’t unsee them and then you are gonna start shifting the way that you’re participating in your everyday solutions or your decisions rather. like, think this is the question I wanted to ask you. How do you teach this to kids? how do you, because they’re kind of, as you said, learning their climate science in pieces. Like maybe there’s some in science or they do a little Earth Day activity or it’s.

you know, online or it’s at the dinner table, but it’s not in a way that connects with everything that we’ve been talking about. So how do you teach kids that? How do you approach it in a way that keeps them engaged without being overwhelmed?

Brittany Jefferson (36:28.366)
That’s a really great question because climate change is such a complex issue, right? And it can often feel daunting. And I think that what helped me feel grounded in the classroom is my standards actually, because, excuse me, a lot of times in conversations that I’ve had, because like,

There’s a difference between climate, like being in a conversation with a bunch of environmentalists and people who work in climate and have like these goals and dreams for what they think public school or schooling in general should look like. And then there’s the education conversation, right, around the responsibilities and all of the things that, you know, teachers are expected to balance in the classroom. And so.

For me, bouncing back and forth between those two spaces, right, I often, like, what’s missing in the climate space is people not really understanding, like, what teachers are expected to do on a daily basis if they’re not already an environmental science teacher, right? A lot of people in, the climate education space are teachers who taught environmental science. And, like, that’s great, right? That’s great. We need you.

But also at this point, if we’re trying to expand the idea of climate literacy across subject areas, then we have to figure out how we are going to kind of bridge those things. And so for me, as a fifth grade multi-subject teacher, the standards really was what guided how I introduced different topics around climate literacy and human impact. like, don’t, I personally,

do not teach a climate change unit until the third trimester of the school year. But up to that point, we have talked about the Colombian exchange and how that impacted land and human systems during colonization, right? We talked about the shift between the indigenous relationship with the environment and how indigenous societies

Brittany Jefferson (38:44.104)
viewed themselves as stewards of the land and how they created their intricate societies all up and down, you know, North and South America in alignment with Earth’s natural systems in a way that it can prosper and in a way that it can continue to provide. When, you know, colonization was happening and it was expanding across the world, how that mindset towards nature and the role that humans play is different.

And so, you know, it might be, I’m just throwing, we’re just talking about, you know, indigenous societies and we’re talking about the seventh generation principle. And then over here, we’re doing a quote analysis from Robert Doyle talking about, you know, the Bible says humans have dominion over the earth and everything in earth is here to serve the needs and desires of humans. Right. And we’ll just, it’ll, it’ll, you know, we’ll have, there’s a lesson where we’re just discovering, we’re just discussing that mindset. Exactly.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (39:41.358)
How does that and contrast?

Brittany Jefferson (39:43.16)
How does that mindset like think about how our society is built today? Which mindset is prevailing when we talk, when we look at our current society, when we look at our current practices? You know, we talk, we, you know, when we’re continuing through our United States history and we’re talking about displacement of indigenous people, right? And so we’re saying, okay, so we, over here, we have this vast area of a multitude of societies of people that are working with nature.

Now, you know, we have a different group of people with a different set of values that are viewed, you know, that are implementing more dominance and violence and like decimating entire communities. Like what types of things, like how is that going to then impact? Right. And maps, geography, right. Like you can show, I showed.

I have like a lesson where it’s just like a map progression of the forests of, you know, the continental United States and just like different years and like looking at the forest cover and just have kids, you know, draw conclusions and make predictions and make observations. Right. So what, what I’ve found is that it’s less like upfront.

in your face, we’re doomed when you put it within the context of our learning. And then when we get to like the climate, you know, specifically, you know, what climate change is and carbon emissions and, you know, things like that, that’s when we start, we’re really then focusing on solutions, right? We’ve talked about what’s kind of got us here all throughout the year. We’ve talked about a lot of what many of the problems are.

And it’s culminated to like this issue that we refer to as climate change. So now let’s go into and let’s research. What do we know what, you know, because as you know, those of us who are in the climate space know, but you know, a lot of people in the general population don’t necessarily know is that the solutions already exist. Literally all of them, every single one that we need already exists. All we need is the political will and the financial investment to scale. That’s literally the only thing we need.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (41:58.446)
Nobody’s fighting wars over solar panels. We can do this. We can do this.

Brittany Jefferson (42:04.43)
Exactly. And I just read an article too about a country in Europe that they’re now trying to like, they’re now trying to quicken, right? Like their expansion of renewable energy because of, you know, the current ongoing conflicts and because of like what’s turning into a fuel crisis, right? Where it’s like, okay, well now in order for us to be able to maintain our

society, our nation, et cetera, we are going to need more reliable sources of energy. And that’s what we need. We need our political officials to be climate literate and understand the situation, understand the current state of our economy, and then make decisions and choices where funding and prioritization are being put into mitigation and continued expansion of sustainable infrastructure.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (43:00.214)
And funding education will help us to have this workforce that can do this green and just transition. Exactly. It feels like it’s easy, Brittany.

Brittany Jefferson (43:09.014)
It does. When we talk about it, it’s like, it’s so simple.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (43:13.998)
just nodding along like this class sounds awesome. I want to this class. But yes, it’s how did we get here? Okay, where are we going? Right. So for parents who want to start having these conversations at home, what feels like a good place to begin?

Brittany Jefferson (43:28.728)
So I think it really depends on the age of your child. And it really depends on what your child is coming to you already knowing. So my recommendation is that if you have a kid that’s in primary grades, so seven and under, your focus is to create curiosity and whimsy and love and appreciation for the environment. Get rid of those screens. Please limit the screen time. Please, please, please, please.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (43:57.013)
side.

Brittany Jefferson (43:58.338)
As both an educator and a parent, like I am.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (44:01.458)
Go to the outside. It’s awesome. I promise.

Brittany Jefferson (44:05.186)
Like it’s, you know, me, like a part of my love for the environment and my care for the natural world was growing up and being taken to these beautiful natural spaces. You know, like my, was raised by my mom and my aunt, my aunt was like, she was.

label of being like an adventurous friend. Like I’m a friend that’s kind of down for whatever, you know? And even if I’ve never done it before, I’m like, if it’s going to make you happy, sure, I’ll do it with you. Let’s go do it. And so I think, I think that came from my aunt because she’s so go with the flow and she’s very adventurous. She travels a lot and she, you know, would go and she would do, when she was in grad school, you know, she would go on these like geography,

like study, you know, like study trips and stuff like that. And she’d bring me. And so we would go to these really cool places and, know, we’d be like walking in like a river bed and you know, like it was, I, so I, in me was like cultivated this love and this wonder and like little kids love animals. They love animals. Exactly. And so

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (45:19.136)
and sticks. Rocks are

Brittany Jefferson (45:26.166)
You know, like really cultivating that wonder and try hard as adults because we’re very like, like dirt, buzz, you know, thing, but like really try to cultivate that and cultivate that curiosity in your young children and, you know, in the outside world and like read more books, go to the library, please. Older children.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (45:47.48)
Yeah.

Brittany Jefferson (45:53.056)
Now, would say like third to… Third is still kind of young, but like third to fifth grade often gets lumped in together. But there is a vast difference between third graders and fifth graders, especially in the age of smartphones. And so, know, third graders might not know as much or they might not have been exposed as much. But like by the time kids are getting to fifth grade, they’ve seen or heard something.

somewhere about the climate emergency. It might not necessarily be carbon emissions specifically, but.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (46:32.216)
Even just like the phrase save the planet is really scary to a small child. Like from what? And then when you’re like, from us, like, I don’t know how a small child processes that.

Brittany Jefferson (46:42.862)
Exactly. Exactly. And so as kids start getting older, they usually have become exposed to some of the problems. And I think that asking your kids what they already know is a good way, is a good place to start. Right? Like if you’re thinking, okay, you know, I want to teach my kids about these things or my kid is coming to me with questions that I’m not really sure I have the answers for. Right.

Like start with what do you already know or what have you already heard about this? kind of like as a starting point, there are also really great resources that are starting to kind of come out that really gamify the knowledge and understanding of climate and earth systems. earth matters is a game that I, it’s a game that I like very vehemently promote. and I, it’s an integral part of my programming.

because it really does do a great job of teaching kids the foundational ideas of like certain practices are going to heat up the world. Other practices are going to cool down the world. There is a safe, like temperature band in which we want to keep. Exactly. And it provides us with like an understanding and different tools and tips for, you know, our everyday lives.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (47:56.64)
and maintain

Brittany Jefferson (48:09.426)
so, you know, I would recommend that there’s also like, there’s books. so I am actually putting together like a climate literacy library, which is just like a database of ranging from like young children’s picture books all the way through, like with middle grade, YA adult fiction and nonfiction to just kind of like put like, you can find a book.

for anything that you wanna learn or anything that you wanna know. There’s also a book called Talking to Kids about Climate Change. I liked it in terms of like a starting place on helping our kids just kind of understand the role that we can play as humans. it is kind of missing like the justice aspect. There’s, you know, it’s very white centric and like that’s…

Okay, is just a very like limiting perspective. So I do, you know, but it is a good, it is a really good like starting point for, you know, introducing those conversations like with your kids. I also like, then as kids start getting older, then you might start having to navigate emotions. And you might start having to navigate anxiety, especially with like the teenage years.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (49:28.31)
This is where we’re at in our house.

Brittany Jefferson (49:30.722)
Same, same. So my oldest is 16. And so I have been having some very honest conversations with him, but the biggest thing that I try to support him in is understanding that we are here and we are in this together. This is something that we are all collectively here experiencing. And

I, this is why I do the work that I do is because I am trying my best to do my part in making sure that we are moving, we are ever moving towards more sustainability and helping him kind of navigate, you know, maybe the fear or things like that. Like I’ve told him, like, it is quite possible that our lives are going to look very different in 2030.

that what we are doing day to day is going to be very different. The responsibilities that we hold and the way our society interacts with each other and just the general climate of our existence may look very different. And so here’s what I want for you. You’re thinking about your career, you’re thinking about your job.

What is something that you are good at? What is something that you are interested in? And how is that going to help move us towards sustainability? us help move us towards self-reliance, right? Like in this age of fascism, I don’t really trust my government to protect my, not only like my rights, but just like my daily necessities, right? Like I’m not really…

have much faith in the existence of social security for much longer, for food stamps, for the way our healthcare system, right? So my thoughts and my thinking is I’m really trying to figure out how I can be in community with people so that we can be more self-reliant. What are some of these skills and things that we need to learn so that we’re not so reliant on the government and

Brittany Jefferson (51:47.566)
corporations to provide us with what we need. And action is the antidote to despair. someone who has been dealing with a lot of anxiety and depression, right? I feel like there are certain, as an environmentalist, I’m understanding climate and how it works, right? I feel for climate scientists right now. It’s just like, are you okay? I don’t think y’all are.

Brittany Jefferson (52:21.43)
I’m saying like it’s just like wow like you y’all this the climate science is so good that like they know what’s coming and what’s happening and like they’re freaking out and we’re just kind of like well

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (52:34.03)
No, a good friend of mine is a climate scientist for the ministry here. And are they okay? No. And not just the science of it, but it’s also just like, what’s going to happen with my funding? And is the government actually prioritizing this? And the ministry is such a bureaucracy. it’s a lot of that too. And that goes back to what you were saying, like, my God, we know what we need to do here.

And then just continuing to run into that like red tape covered brick wall. Yes.

Brittany Jefferson (53:07.948)
Yes. Exactly. And so, you know, the best way when we’re dealing with emotions, we’re dealing with anxiety, we’re dealing with fear and even doomism, right? Like the idea that we’re that there’s nothing that we can do, that this is a problem that is too vast. As long as we are here and we are alive, there is something that we can do. And so any time where you’re feeling overwhelmed or you feel

you know, scared or sad, right? Go and do something. So, so simple. Like, you know, I like to pick up trash on my walks, you know, like I just like small things like that. Just in that moment, it just makes me feel better. I also want people to get involved in their city politics more. Yes. Go to the school board meetings. Go to your city.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (54:02.672)
meetings.

Brittany Jefferson (54:05.932)
because that is where our day-to-day infrastructure really happens. The federal government, we need the federal government, but we don’t have them right now. We just don’t. And so getting involved in our city politics and our school districts is critical because the people who don’t want us teaching this are very heavily involved in their city and their state politics.

Right. When we’re talking book bands, if we’re talking about anti LGBTQ legislation, right. The people who are against those things are very politically involved. so we also, we need to match that energy and be as politically involved fighting for what we know we want to see in our schools, in our cities, in our infrastructure.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (54:57.632)
Yes. And look for the organization that is already doing the work that you can give your time to, whether it’s the food pantry or your out checking bird boxes with me or whatever, there are people doing the thing in your area that would love to have you.

Brittany Jefferson (55:14.242)
Yes, yes.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (55:16.502)
Yeah. So I’m just like, got all teary because I was like, this is what it felt like to be at the bottom of that last inning. Like just try your hardest besties.

I’ve watched six baseball games in six days, Brittany. This is who I am now.

Brittany Jefferson (55:32.204)
No, I know, because we experienced it wasn’t as extreme as this last World Series because that game was just out of this world. But that year we lost the World Series to the Astros. That year we lost to the Astros. That was devastation. Devastation.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (55:51.5)
Yeah, I’m still recovering. The vibes in the sky don’t were immaculate this week. So I have hope for the future every way that we’re looking at it. So at the end of every episode, as we’re wrapping up here, I like to put my guests on the spot and ask them, well, we’ll do my real question and then we’ll do a lightning round. So at the end of every episode, I asked guests for one small shift. So what’s one thing someone could do today to start working toward?

be more climate literate or environmental justice.

Brittany Jefferson (56:26.19)
You’re going to Google a climate Venn diagram. That’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to Google a climate Venn diagram created by the All We Can Save project and you’re going to fill it out. It has it’s a three way Venn diagram that involves like, are you good at? What are the needs? So like, what are the problems related to your area and what are you?

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (56:54.324)
brings you joy.

Brittany Jefferson (56:55.192)
Yes. What brings you joy? Yeah. And you’re going to fill it out and you’re going to look at it. And that is going to be your starting point. You’re also going to read more, read more nonfiction. I don’t care who you are, even if you think you’re bookish. Right. We all can be reading more. We all can be reading more. And, you know, I have a ton of book recommendations, you know, all we can save is one of them.

And what if we get it right? by Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson is chef’s kiss. I love her so much.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (57:30.232)
I did a whole episode on the climate Venn diagram because that is where I even refocus my efforts on it feels like a quarterly basis. Now I really have to sit down and be like, okay, I’m spinning out. So where am I going to put my time and energy? Exactly. I’ve done it.

Brittany Jefferson (57:44.75)
I’ve done it a few times and it kind of it shifts a little bit each time because you know sometimes maybe the issues maybe there’s a different issue that takes center stage you know maybe the issue for you right now is the crumbling of our democracy and that’s what you’re concerned about you know.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (58:02.744)
Trying.

Brittany Jefferson (58:05.848)
So yeah, so like that’s my first thing is like get you a climate Venn diagram and fill it out and then go find some nonfiction climate books and subscribe to my Patreon. So I’ve people to resources for a living.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (58:28.846)
I’m going to put all of this in the show notes and that one is in bold sparkly letters. So, okay. Lightning round. know that you’ve been re-watching or at least watching some older shows for the first time. And I know you’re doing Scandal right now. Yes. I know you’re not all the way through, but at this juncture, are we team Fitz or we team Jake?

Brittany Jefferson (58:49.262)
That’s so hard! Okay, so…

It’s gonna be really hard for me to root for a relationship with a man who’s married.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (59:03.694)
Even if it’s to Mellie, like I got it. Remember I was saying like, you know, I did root for Mellie.

Brittany Jefferson (59:11.378)
Honestly, love for Millie kind of grows as the show goes on. I have watched the show from start to finish.

Brittany Jefferson (59:21.974)
Exactly. So I’m rewatching and I’m currently like towards the end of season four. And it’s when like, yes, yes. And that’s when like Olivia really goes off the deep end. Like she like up to this point, she had been trying so hard to like wear her little white hat and do the good thing and fight the good fight and like do dirty stuff for good.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (59:29.558)
That’s when it really…

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (59:44.536)
Pretend your dad isn’t who he is.

Brittany Jefferson (59:47.104)
And then, and then by season four, after all this stuff, like when she tried to get Jake out, like she, it just became like, I will do the evil thing to protect the people that I love, which like may or may not be for the greater good, but I love this person and I can’t let them, so, you know, something else is going to have to happen to somebody else. And I found that to be really interesting. I…

I kind of have a soft spot for Jake. I’m going to be honest because like, and at the end of the show, I’m like justice for Jake Ballard, you know? Like this poor kid like came from this terrible household and was groomed into being this like killing machine soldier that just like followed orders and fell in love with Olivia, but was always second best.

Like always second best. He got his little time on the island and then that was it.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (01:00:44.174)
Yep. No, this is exactly where I landed too. I’m like, I think it might be Jake.

Brittany Jefferson (01:00:51.022)
Scott, Scott. He is like Patrick Dempsey to me, where it’s like, y’all have aged really well. Like you are in your 50s and y’all are fine.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (01:01:03.276)
He’s in his 50s? I think so. no, no, no. think he’s like my age-ish. Yeah. I was like in first year university when Felicity was happening. Okay. Okay. looks, looks like for his skincare. I’m like, okay. Interesting. Yeah. It was funny when you were watching Dawson’s Creek, it was just like sending me, those were the best updates. So everyone make sure that you are following Brittany because it’s a ride. It’s very fun.

Brittany Jefferson (01:01:14.733)
I mean, that’s a good

Brittany Jefferson (01:01:32.835)
I mean, I gotta throw in, I gotta throw in, if I’m constantly gonna be talking about climate, right, like I have to throw in a little dose of escapism and have some fun. so like TV shows, I’m also, I was a screen studies major in college.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (01:01:45.366)
What? I was just screwed that he’s majoring.

Brittany Jefferson (01:01:47.084)
Yeah. In college, so like I got my degree in analyzing TV shows and movies. And so like, this is like my favorite way of just kind of putting that to work because I never used it to like get paid as a job. This is what I do. I watch TV shows and I analyze characters and look at storytelling elements.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (01:02:09.102)
We’re going to do a separate podcast about that. Bernie, thank you so much for your time and your expertise today. So where can people find you and support your work and book a classroom visit with you?

Brittany Jefferson (01:02:21.676)
Yeah, so you can find me on Patreon at patreon.com slash the EJ educator. You can also find me on Instagram at Britt to tease dot the EJ educator. You can also find me on teachers pay teachers. So if you are a teacher and you are looking for lessons that are rooted in climate literacy like my teachers pay teacher page, environmental justice education will have what you need, especially if you teach grades fourth through eighth.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (01:02:51.47)
Yeah. all that in the show notes for everybody so that they can find you everywhere. Thank you again so much, Bernie, for this conversation. There’s a lot to think about.

Brittany Jefferson (01:02:52.247)
and

Brittany Jefferson (01:03:00.686)