Ep. 62: Sustainable Period Care — Reusable Products, PFAS & Choosing What Works

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (00:00)
Okay, grab your water bottle and settle in, because this one covers pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about sustainable period care, and probably a few things you never thought to ask. Welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs, a podcast for the eco-curious who want to live a greener life and are looking for a place to start. I’m your host, Sarah Robertson Barnes, a soccer mom with a station wagon and a passion for sustainable living.

Each week, I’ll bring you practical tips and honest conversations to help you waste less, save money, and make small doable shifts that actually fit your real life. Because sustainable living doesn’t have to be perfect to matter, and you don’t have to do it all to make a difference.

Hello, and welcome back to Sustainable in the Suburbs, the podcast where we start where we are, use what we have, and live a little greener, one small shift at a time. My name is Sarah, and I’m so pleased to be spending time talking about periods with you today. If this podcast has become part of your regular routine, the best way to support it is by leaving a rating and a review wherever you’re listening today. It really helps new folks find the show.

You can also click support the show link in the show notes or share your favorite episode on social media. And if we’re not already connected there, you can find me on Instagram at Sarah.robertson.barnes or head over to Sustainable in the Suburbs page on Facebook and leave your thoughts on the episode post. You will also find links to everything we talk about in today’s episode at sustainableinthesuburbs.com/period care.

So, what does sustainable period care actually look like when it all depends on your individual body and your budget and what you have access to in your actual daily life? I started thinking about this again recently because the menstrual cup I’ve been using for about a decade finally needed to be replaced. And then I met today’s guest, Sheree. So I’ve been a cup user for years, but period underwear was something I had never really tried, partly because

I had some questions about how it would actually feel to wear, and also because of everything I’ve heard about PFAS and other chemicals that have been found in period underwear. So I came into this conversation with Cherie with quite a bit of experience with other options for reusable period care, but also some of the same questions and hesitations that I had at the beginning, and I think a lot of people have. And that’s where I really wanted to start because reusable period products can

reduce a tremendous amount of waste, no question. And they save money over time. And once you find something that works for you, it just becomes totally ordinary part of your life. But sustainable period care is about more than replacing a disposable with a reusable product. It’s obviously also about your comfort and cost and changing habits that we’ve had for years, but it’s also learning about product safety and thinking about stigma. We also need to talk about period poverty.

A reusable product may last for years, but affordability over time is not the same thing as affordability today. And having access to a product doesn’t necessarily mean having privacy or clean water or sanitation, education, or the infrastructure needed to use it safely and comfortably. So this conversation starts with the practical stuff. Cups, discs, period underwear, how they work, what they’re made of, how to clean them.

And why people are sometimes hesitant to try them. But we also get into concerns about PFAS and the cost of period care, period poverty, and why the bigger goal should be expanding people’s choices rather than creating another sustainability rule that we feel we have to be perfect at. So my guest today is Cherie Hoe ger, co-founder and CEO of Saalt.

A B corporation that makes reusable period and leak care products, including menstrual cups, discs, and period underwear. Cherie is also a mother of six, including five daughters, and much of her work centers on making reusable period care more accessible, reducing period product waste, and addressing period poverty through Saalt Social Impact Work. We talk about what makes different reusable options work for different bodies and different stages of life, why behavior change can take time.

What people should actually understand about PFAS chemicals and product materials, and why access to safe, affordable, and dignified period care is ultimately about much more than the product itself. Here’s my conversation with Cherie.

Hi Sheree, welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs. It’s so nice to be chatting with you again.

Cherie Hoeger (04:48)
it’s so lovely to be here.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (04:50)
We had a a great call like a month ago. Um, and then we should have just hit record on that. But we’ll do that today. So to start off, um, can you tell everyone else a little bit about yourself and the work that you do?

Cherie Hoeger (05:04)
Yeah, so I’m the co-founder and CEO of a company called Saalt. That’s Saalt with two A’s. And we sell reusable and sustainable period care products and also leak care products since our underwear spans any leak, not just periods. It’s it’s been an incredible journey. We started in 2018 and have been going strong for the past nine years. And really just what what gets me going each day is that I get to change the lives of women and girls primarily across the world. And I’m also a mother of six children.

And five of them are daughters. So periods are very much my life. I have a lot of female energy in the home and it’s been incredible to also create teen products and create products that my daughters use every day and start them out sustainably from the get go. So that’s been probably one of my my biggest areas of fulfillment in my life is to see

My daughters never had those surprise leak moments or never have, you know, the scare of using anything that could be harmful in our bodies in such an intimate area and some of the disposable products we use because they get they’ve started out with cups and discs and are period underwear from the very beginning. And uh I’m just proud of that and I really want that to to be the case for every young girl out there.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (06:15)
That’s such a gift to be able to start out that way instead of figuring it out on your own or as you go or what have you. And we’ll talk about that in a minute, come to it a bit later in life. But um so I recently did an episode just by myself looking at the different low waste menstrual care options. But I think it’s gonna be really great to revisit the reusable side of that conversation with someone who works and lives and breathes it every single day because there are more options now than there ever used to be.

And really the most important thing is figuring out, yeah, what works best for your body and and your real life. So can you walk us through on the main reusable options and that folks have now, like cups and discs and period underwear, all of those great things and how they differ.

Cherie Hoeger (07:02)
Yeah. that’s such a great question. I love explaining this. This is this is mostly what I do in my job is just teaching people about these products because I think that they’re often seen as these alternative fringe products. When, you know, I tried them out, they were so life-changing and so much better than the than the alternatives, which I call disposables, that I feel like they’re a gold standard of what we could actually be using. And so to break it down, there’s cups and discs that act as a replacement for.

Inserted products like tampons. And then also you have period underwear that essentially replaces pads and it replaces any type of pads. So we’re talking panty liners all the way up to maxi pads because it’s just a built-in absorbent technology within the underwear that you can just wash and reuse over and over again. I have a lot of questions people will often ask me, do I put the

pad on top of the gusset, you know, which is the internal part. We’re like, no, that’s the beautiful part. You just wear it just like normal underwear. And it’s like the a built-in pad. So it’s the reusable portion is just right there. Um for those who may be watching on video or an eclipse, you can see this gusset that’s built in, but it is it’s essentially just this black gusset that is really magical. It’s amazing what you can do with fabric now. And you know this gusset can hold three to six pads of flow in one

And one gusset, which is essentially just the part that that goes, you know, right up against your intimate area. And so it’s it’s an incredible technology. But those are the three main reusable options. There’s also companies that will sell reusable liners and essentially uh reusable pads that you stick to your underwear that you can clip into the bottom, but it’s nicer to be able to have it built into the underwear. So I think that that’s really the best option. But the way to use them, before I talk about

How they’re different, I’m gonna talk about how to use them in conjunction. Because the best idea for how to use reusable products is to combine the cup and disc with underwear. So essentially, you’re using these as a tampon replacement and then using the underwear as that like backup panty liner replacement. For a lot of Americans that use tampons, that makes a lot of sense because they know that tampons can sometimes leak. And so people will often wear panty liners, or there’s a lot of people who wear daily panty liners.

just for general discharge or sweat when they’re working out or you know, or for leaks. Yes. The sneezing, the coughing, all the things. And so the beautiful thing is that our underwear encompasses all leaks and absorbs everything from periods to bladder leaks. And they can even be used for postpartum bleeding. And so it’s it’s pretty incredible. Now what are the differences? This is a great question. Because a cup sits within the vaginal canal. And so

It uses suction to seal rather than a disc that just sits on the skeletal structure. So the difference between cups and discs is that the cups sit within the vaginal canal and the disc sits in the posterior fornix. So it’s above the vaginal canal, right under the cervix. And there’s different reasons why you would use a cup versus a disc. So cups are great for beginners, you know, it’s

A little bit easier to position when you are starting with inserted products for the first time. They can hold four to six times the amount of a tampon between them. So this cup can hold three times the amount of a tampon, which is a small cup. The regular cup can hold four times the amount of a tampon, and our largest disc can hold six times the amount of a tampon. So a disc is actually the highest capacity menstrual product that exists on the marketplace. So there’s so many people who deal with heavy flows.

And those heavy flows can come from conditions like endometriosis or PMOS or various different different conditions. Yes.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (10:43)
Yeah.

Cherie Hoeger (10:45)
And for those that have those heavy flows, pairing a disc with one of our highest absorbency underwears is really the best options out there. So, but you know, everybody’s anatomies are different. So we have we have different ones. There’s also two sizes of discs that that are offered. Now, why would you use one over another? So, as a beginner, it’s great to use a cup.

it’s it’s you just fold it and it easily pops open. It has this nice pop sound, and it essentially collects flow instead of absorbing it like a tampon. And then to remove it, you just pinch it at the base and you wiggle it out and you dump it, and then you refold it into what it’s called a C fold, or you can do a punch down fold that makes it about the size of a tampon, and then you re-insert it. And it can last for up to twelve hours, which is incredible. Four to six hours on a heavy day, twelve hours on a light day. The disc.

The reason you might want to use a disc is if you have an IUD, then you don’t want something that uses suction to seal because you may potentially suction out that IUD. You can be careful. Not everybody, you know, has that risk. You can be you can be careful as long as you’re breaking that suction, but it’s it’s a better option to go with a disc because it doesn’t use any suction to seal. Instead, it just sits on the skeletal structure of the pubic bone. Yeah. That also

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (11:58)
So more comfortable like you won’t be worried about it and yeah.

Cherie Hoeger (12:02)
Exactly. This also makes it a great option for those that have weaker pelvic floors. So who aren’t able to maybe keep a disc or a c a cup within the vaginal canal. It kind of could move up or down on them. So sitting on skeletal structure could be good. Someone who has a low cervix. So for me who’s birthed six children, I have a weaker pelvic floor and a low cervix, so I have some prolapse. So the disc is my ideal option.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (12:26)
It doesn’t have the stem either. Like for folks who are watching, it doesn’t have the little stem that the cup has. So that’s nice for for general comfort too, because the first cup that I ever used would pinch me with the stem inside and I ended up just trimming it off.

Cherie Hoeger (12:41)
You know, and that was my experience also. So I started using cups over a decade ago now. And I did the same thing. Like I felt that some k some cups, those stems were could really irritate. Yeah. And so I went to my husband, who was helping me with the product development at the time, and I said, Can we create a stem that doesn’t pinch, that doesn’t irritate? And so we decided to have it be indented to be able to feel the stem. Cause it really you shouldn’t pull on the stem, it’s you should only use it to locate the base of the cup.

Yep. pulling can hurt when you’re when it’s suction sealed. So you don’t you don’t want to do that. You want to locate the base and you wanna break the suction by pinching the base. And I read it on on all these Reddit forums where like people would say, just cut off the stem. And I said, No, I want something that’s flexible that I can keep because I’d like to be able to locate the cups. So that’s one of the design differences with our products.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (13:27)
Yeah, they’re very um I have been trying this Saalt cup because my previous cup bit the dust after about oh gosh, probably ten or eleven years now. Um I am I am forty six, but I’m not near finished apparently. So I’m like, okay, I gotta get a new cup. so I have been trying one of yours. I have the um regular size and it’s very soft but sturdy, if that makes sense. and so it’s very comfortable and I just

Wanted everyone to know that um I really do love it.

Cherie Hoeger (13:58)
I love to hear that. And I like it explained as soft and sturdy because essentially we do have a cryogenic deflashing uh process that we have with our cups, and it really creates that velvety smooth finish. So we found that a firmer silicone that was still a very soft and flexible silicone and very silky smooth was actually better for a beginner user and for most users. And so that that’s why ours is firmer. So I really love that you called it, you know, soft but sturdy.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (14:25)
Yeah. I found that with my previous cup it was very um stiff. And I never thought about how that would mean that that that that’s what was causing leaks because that was my main issue with my cup and I would back it up with a reusable pad, which I honestly didn’t love using because again it shifts and and all of that. So I have been combining them with the overnight period underwear and that has made such a huge difference to me. And like I’m not waking up in the night worried anymore or

Like I know it sounds gross, but like feeling wet, it’s not awesome. Um, and so this has been a big change for me because I was on the fence about period underwear, and we can talk about why in a little bit, but yeah. So okay, so knowing all the options exist is one thing, but actually changing the way that you manage your period, I think is something else. So it’s period care is really personal. And most of us have been using, you know, some version of the same products and routines since we were teenagers.

And even if like, you know, you I really care about reducing waste, um, switching can mean getting past a lot of um like psychological barriers, like worrying about mess and leaks and and hygiene and cleaning it and feeling comfortable and inserting it and how do I use it away from home and just all of those um different things that are you know, they’re different. They’re not what we’re used to, you know, in a disposable product. So, you know, what do you hear most often from people who are interested in the reusable period care?

But still reluctant to actually try it.

Cherie Hoeger (15:58)
Well, you just described our normal customer journey in that people have so many questions and so many doubts about it, which works for and against us as a company because, you know, because they’re so doubtful, like, will this really work for me? How do I use this? You know, I do I have to really learn this behavior change? Can it be messy? And so then when they actually do try it, they’re blown away. And the number one phrases we hear are number one, that they’re life changing. And second, I wish I would have tried this sooner. Yep.

And so I I think it’s incredible. Now, how do you get people like over the hump if they’re on the fence? Usually people have heard about it, heard that they exist or heard that a friend uses it. Um, a lot of people still haven’t heard about it, but most you know, have understand that they’re out there and around, but they’re still scared to make that jump. And so one thing I say is it just takes one moment of bravery.

to use a cup for the very first time and the cup is the one I would recommend as the first time. Uh a lot of people gravitate to a disc and use that right away. And so many people try discs, you know, right from the get go as well. But the cup is the one we recommend because it’s just a little bit easier with positioning.

And and you know, try it in the shower. That’s a no-risk zone because you can use water as a natural lubricant, you know, practice putting it in. You don’t have to be on your period. And you can just practice taking it in and you know, putting it in, taking it out, and so forth. And people usually find that that helps overcome the barrier. And then the next question is, is it messy? You know, how do you clean it?

And the way that we combat that is it’s actually less messy to me than disposables because you don’t have the smelly trash can. You if you’re if you’re going outdoors, you don’t have to pack things in and out, right?

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (17:36)
I

think people don’t realize that you’re not supposed to flush tampons.

Cherie Hoeger (17:39)
And you’re not supposed to flush tampons. I remember as a teen, I was like, yeah, I never put, you know, the applicators in the tr in the toilet. Like, what are they talking about? And I realized, no, I was actually flushing my tampons though, my used tampons, the cotton portion, into the into the toilet system. And of course that cogs causes clogs and drainage issues and so forth. And so I thought I was doing the right thing and then realized, no, I’m supposed to put the entire thing in the trash can. But that

can create a lot of smells, right? So it is a cleaner experience overall. And that’s something that was surprising to me as a cup user for the very first time too is I thought, this is going to be messy. I might have to touch blood. And yeah, when you’re pulling it in and out, then that’s probably the only con is okay, your fingers might touch blood and you have to wash them. But it is actually a cleaner experience because they’re it’s odor free because really those odors come from when the blood touches the air and it retains it internally. And so it’s cleaner that way.

And then um and then you just have less to pack around in general. You just put a cup in your purse and that’s it.

You can also, you can also just wipe it with toilet paper, or you can wet a paper towel before you go into a stall. And essentially that’s just cleaning in a public bathroom. If you have a sink next to you, it’s a lot easier. But if you’re in a public bathroom, then you know, when you’re dumping it in and out.

then you’re able to just do like a quick rinse or a quick wipe and then put it back in. Or the beautiful thing is because it can last 10, you know, up to 12 hours, you may not have to dump it at all because it can last quite a bit of time. So a lot of people will put it in in the morning time and they’ll go about their day and you can use the bathroom without having to take it out, which is something beautiful for anyone who’s experienced the wet

tampon string experience when you wet the string but your tampon is not fully saturated yet. So then you have to pull out the dry tampon because maybe or you’re either trying to dry the string or you’re pulling out the tampon. Yeah. And that’s the worst feeling ever is to pull out a dry tampon and it can cause micro tearing, which can lead to TSS. So it can get worse than that. It’s it’s not a good idea. And this, you know, using a cup or disc.

doesn’t have that wet tampon string because it just stays internally. So you can go ahead and use the bat use the bathroom without dumping it. If it’s full, then you want to dump it. But if not, you can go twelve hours. And so you can just, you know, take it back out once you get home. So that’s that’s a beautiful thing that people don’t realize.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (20:01)
Yeah, I think I’ve only been caught um off guard in a public washroom a handful of times. And I’ve been using a cup for 10 years. Um so it’s not the worst thing in the world. I mean, we’ve all we’ve all been there in some way, shape, or form um when when we’re menstruating and it just is one of those things. But um I have found that since I’ve been using a cup, I’ve been a lot more in tune with my cycles because you do have to see it.

Right. We’re not just taking it out and dumping it and off we go. But you’re actually like I I I look at it and see like, okay, this looks fine. Or this one was heavier than usual or what have you. Like I just feel like I have more information about my own um health. And also now that I’m in perimenopause, I can like this one was heavier, this is getting lighter, um, whatever it is, because I’m I’m in it. I’m looking at it. And I think that’s been a really great education for me.

Cherie Hoeger (20:56)
I you just described what we see every day from cup users is that they become more educated about their bodies. It’s incredible to see because you you learn about your anatomy. Oftentimes you’ll feel where your cervix is and not nobody knows where their cervix is when they first start out. But as a cup user, we have a little trick where if you, you know, put put your finger up there, it feels like

The tip of your nose with a hole in it. That’s what your cervix feels like. And it’s helpful to know the positioning, to know exactly where to position your cup. Because if you have a lower cervix, you might position it lower. If you have a higher cervix, you might position it higher so that it goes below the faucet, is what we call it.

And it’s incredible how informed you can become with your body and understand your flow. So you described being able to see your flow too. There have been so many people who’ve reached out to us that have said,

how impactful it was to be able to actually know how much they flow every every cycle. Because then they know whether it’s a more of a regular flow, because they can actually measure the milliliters. And some people have even been able to convince their providers, their medical providers about conditions that they’re experiencing because they’ve been actually able to quantify how much they’re flowing.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (22:04)
Yeah,

it you have to like literally show it to be believed. But it’s really interesting that you say that because I was just thinking about um how you’ll say I’m bleeding through this many pads in a day or two pads an hour or however many tampons it is. But it has only been really recently that those products were even tested with menstrual blood versus just saline. So what actually is the absorbency rate? Whereas this way you can say like I’m filling my cup this many times a day and it has this capacity, it is really valuable information.

Cherie Hoeger (22:34)
Yeah, it was just back in August of twenty twenty three that we f had that very first study that tested the efficacy of menstrual products and how much they actually absorbed and they use real menses for the first time. And so my goodness, we have such a long way to go in women’s research, but we applaud that things are actually happening. Yeah.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (22:51)
That blew my mind ’cause whatever it’s like, eight teaspoons is normal or whatever and I’m like, What? Like an hour like

Cherie Hoeger (22:58)
Yes.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (22:59)
Like

for whom? How is that? Oh yeah. When I read it was twenty twenty three, that I just you

Cherie Hoeger (23:05)
Yes.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (23:06)
know, screams internally. So this way is much better. You will get really, really useful information for your health. but making it part of your everyday life is something else. So we talked a little bit about cleaning, whether it’s like a cup or a disc or you know, your period underwear, but if it’s just sort of sitting in your drawer, then it’s not really reducing much waste. So

This is um there’s that behavior change barrier that you were talking about to make it feel manageable. So what can what will actually help someone go from trying it to using it and then sort of being an evangelist for it?

Cherie Hoeger (23:44)
You know, first of all, give yourself grace. When I tried a cup for the first time, I remember vacillating between cups and and tampons. And I really loved the cup experience, but I didn’t quite know how to clean it. And I didn’t know what I was gonna do in a public restroom. And so I was just like, I’ll take a tampon that time. And it took it took, you know, several cycles for me to finally say, you know, I’m gonna use the cup ongoing. So it’s perfectly okay to

you know, continue to use disposable products as you’re trying to make the switch. And then some people go cold turkey and they say, this is such a better experience. And I just go. And whatever’s right for you is okay for you. And that’s really, I think, the message that you bring to the sustainability space too. It’s we invite you in, right? We’re not shaming you. We’re inviting to look at things in a better way and to really adopt changes little by little. And the same is with, you know, period care products. The underwear I would say is is a little bit of a

easier change and so if you’re looking to start somewhere start with the underwear because you’re literally just putting it on.

And my children and myself, we use it as everyday underwear because really women need absorbency in all of their underwear because we leak some kind of fluid for 24 days out of a 28-day cycle between, you know, ovulation, between just the regular cervical fluid that can increase during the ovulation time, and then the bladder leaks and sweat, all the things.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (24:57)
Yeah, I will say I was hesitant to try period underwear for a really long time because I’m used to the experience of pads and it’s very different. it doesn’t feel like you’re wearing something different. It doesn’t feel like, you know, you’re sitting on a pad or you’re trying to keep it in place or anything like that. The gusset is very generous and very thin. Um so it’s yeah, that one that ’cause that’s where my barrier was with period underwear is how is it gonna feel? And is it gonna feel wet?

because I I haven’t used pads since like the nineteen nineties. So that was a big that was a big mental leap for me to do that.

Cherie Hoeger (25:33)
Well, and really you know, tampons I think are a decent experience. Like I’m gr I’m grateful for all the period products that we have and everything I grew up with because we have accessibility and a lot of our work is with period poverty and we’re talking about people who don’t have access to any products. Um so t for me tampons weren’t weren’t a bad experience, but really I can find nothing good to say about pads. The pad experience is the worst. They stick to all the wrong places.

They’re bulky, you have to do the little mirror check, you know, looking at your backside to make sure that they’re not bulking out of your jeans. And you feel you feel like everybody can see it, even though it’s usually not the case. But it’s just like all that lack of confidence that you have because you’re leaking. And so to me, the period underwear is not only a very practical solution that’s more comfortable, it’s better for the environment because it’s reusable. And it’s also just a more

dignified experience because you’re just wearing comfortable underwear that feels like your favorite underwear and it takes that worry out about like changing your pad or having to keep them with you and be covered for anything that’s a surprise leak or surprise period because you’re literally covered all the time. So I I always tell people I don’t sell products, I sell freedom and dignity.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (26:48)
Oh, I love that. Yeah, the pad experiences, there’s a lot there. But um I my hesitation with pads and why I initially got off of them and switched to just like applicator free cotton tampons was I didn’t want the plastic. Um, because pads are made of a lot of plastic and other things that for absorbency that we maybe don’t want that close to our skin. So let’s talk about materials.

Because I think there are some still really pervasive misconceptions out there. And then some are for good reason that I know period underwear in particular has gotten a lot of attention because of concerns about PFAS. So for someone who’s considering reusables, partly because they want to either do lower waste or non-toxic options, hearing that forever chemicals can be enough to really back away from that option. So I think a lot of people have heard about PFAS and period underwear.

without really maybe knowing what that means. So what do we actually need to understand about that concern?

Cherie Hoeger (27:49)
Yeah, this is a wonderful question and such a great topic. The PFAS are polyfluoral alkyl substances that are essentially forever chemicals that are in everything. There’s trace amounts and unfortunately in everything because they’ve been used in Teflon for years. They’re used uh to make things hydrophobic. So y anything that’s like stick-free, right? So you’re talking about the inside of of

Paper wrappers for fast food wrappers like hamburger wrappers and so forth, our coffee cups, you know, that may be made out of cardboard, but then have that nice little coating. Oftentimes that’s been PFAS chemicals. Our outdoor gear or our couches when you put when you put Scotch guard on it, you know, when you put when you put anything to to make things to make things uh Like I had water, yeah. Yes, thank you. I had a perimenopause moment. I was like, what is that?

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (28:40)
I know what hydrophobic means, but yeah, it’s to repel water. So if you spill coffee on your couch or even you don’t want your pads sticking to your body, that’s it’s those kinds of things. But it’s actually not good for us.

Cherie Hoeger (28:53)
It’s not good for us because it can lead to reproductive diseases. It’s been linked to certain cancers and it they can build up over time. And so truly we can’t ever get away from them because they exist in everything, in our water, in our environment, even in the air that we breathe. But we can limit our exposure to them. And so certainly you don’t want to deliberately make things with PFAS chemicals. And a lot of companies have been walking away from that. Some period underwear companies were using

PFAS chemicals deliberately in their design. You know, and this was this was something maybe they did unknowingly, maybe not, but it was, you know, often recommended to them to do so so that they could have that kind of hyperphobic quality. And, you know, as an educated woman, I knew all about PFAS chemicals, and this was not something that we wanted to include in our design ever. And so we actually created our underwear and got our first sample.

And you know, hadn’t specified PFAS chemicals, in fact, had specified against them and said, do not use these products. When we received our first samples and got them tested with our third-party testing, that showed elevated levels of PFAS chemicals. And we said, okay, trace amounts like that, that is pretty normal, but oftentimes they are below the detection limits. But what is going on here? And we found out that one of our manufacturers had routinely placed the PFAS chemicals on those samples, thinking, this is what all period underwear companies do.

And so we actually had to make a decision point at that time. We’re certified B Corp and everything that we consider, all of our decisions, go through the filter of people, planet, and profit and how they affect all those those the it’s a triple P approach and how they affect all those Ps. And so planet is important to us and people and health is incredibly important to us. And so of course this was a no-brainer for us. We said we can’t go to market with this. I don’t feel comfortable wearing this as a woman. I don’t feel comfortable wearing this as a mother, and I certainly don’t want it for the world.

And so we had to delay the launch of our product for five months for them to re-engineer it and to to be able to ensure that none of the underwear that we launched with had those PFAS chemicals. And though it did set us behind in kind of the race to launch with our period underwear, we are grateful because then a year later there was quite a few lawsuits, um, class action lawsuits against other companies that were using these chemicals. And so pay doing the right thing pays off in the end.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (31:18)
Across the board for people, planet, profit. Yeah. Across the board. so can you give us a general sense then of how like what your period underwear are made out of?

Cherie Hoeger (31:27)
Yeah, we’ll do that. I’ll talk about materials. Now I transparency is important. So you talked about microplastics. So our gusset technology, the top layer actually is a recycled polyester, which is essentially a plastic. And you know, some people are really um disheartened to find that. But first of all, we’re constantly working on new innovations to try to make a better product. And what we found was that

There was a trade-off. It’s tough to have your cake and eat it too. And we wanted to create an underwear that kept you dry because when you have underwear that keeps you wet, that can lead to other health issues like UTIs, it can lead to irritation, it can lead to bacterial growth and so forth. And with with a period underwear, when we had tested all the period underwear out there,

Most of them did a good job absorbing but not keeping you dry. And so I remember I would wear test these and I was a cup user like you and was scared of using period underwear myself when I first tested it. And I felt like I was just sitting within my own wetness and felt like I was wearing a wet diaper. And so that was the challenge that we really took to our product development team was what can we do to make sure that this feels dry? And so the beautiful thing is instead of using PFAS chemicals, we have the hydrophobic and hydrophilic qualities.

inherent in the yarn structure of our gusset technology. And so it’s now patented, which is incredible. But that top layer is a polyester. It’s a recycled polyester made out of single-use water bottles that have been retrieved from the environment. So it’s doing good, but we found that it had to be that synthetic material to be able to to achieve that dry factor. Everyone who works out knows this, right? Try working out in a cotton shirt versus a polyester shirt. It’s just that quick drying factor. So

We are doing more testing to find other potential fabrics and possibilities that we can use to achieve that. But for right now, we wanted to make sure and offer performance for our customers and something that would actually keep them dry and keep them comfortable. And that’s, you know, one of the trade-offs that we, you know, kind of had to make. So and so something that we very fully trust in. The silicone is the same silicone used in permanent medical grade implants. So anything that’s implanted into the body, stints and so forth.

And so it’s a very safe and remarkable material because it’s hyperallergenic and it’s biocompatible and it just, you know, works within the body.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (33:47)
Yeah. I just wanted to just throw out there. Um, I once did a video of cleaning my cup and it went like super viral on TikTok back when I was still using TikTok. And my cup was clear when I’ve initially got it. And it’s not anymore because blood stains. And um, you know, when you’re boiling your cup and all of that, like I just wanted to put that out there that blood does stain.

And that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with the silicone or that you haven’t cleaned it properly, like that staining is normal.

Cherie Hoeger (34:20)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s things you can do to get out the stains and then we have colored cups for that reason, so it helps to hide.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (34:27)
You

were just holding up a colored one and that just it just set it off in my head. But I remember when we chatted previously, you were telling me about um the, you know, recycled plastic in the underwear. And and honestly, like my thoughts on that are great. Because we’re still taking something that’s already made and doing something else with it for sustainability purposes. And so like there’s just there’s no such thing as perfect.

And if it’s something that is going to get you to use the reusables, great. And if it’s not for you, that’s also cool.

Cherie Hoeger (34:58)
Certainly better for the environment. Yeah. Being able to really lean into that regenerative um product development. And then in our and then in our body fabrics, like our nylons are these extra stretch life nylons. So they’re long-lasting nylon. We have our comfort collection that’s made out of renewable beechwood fiber. And then we also have our lace and mesh collection that’s also made out of recycled plastic. So this is post-consumer recycled water bottles, primarily that’s that’s used.

And that is purchased and it’s it’s it’s incredible to really be able to lean into that and to repurpose, you know, all that waste into something that is useful and is performative.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (35:38)
There is such an opportunity for innovation like this with materials that are otherwise just going to landfill. And I would argue that’s actually very sustainable.

Cherie Hoeger (35:48)
Yes. I love seeing all that innovation. I love seeing, you know, furniture outdoor furniture made out of s made out of waste and finding a way to repurpose it because there’s so much of it out there. We really need to find out what to do about it because it takes so long to degrade. I mean, if you think about tampon applicators take longer to degrade than the lifespan of the person who wears it. Yes. And we use eleven thousand on average disposable products throughout the period of our

of our reproductive lifespan with our periods. And that that is just so many. So the power of one cup that can last 10 years, we’ve actually had ours uh go through an accelerated aging test to with a third party to find out how long they can really last. Because we say 10 years in our marketing because we know it can last at least that long. But when we did, they found that our silicone can last 40 years. That’s incredible because that’s the average reproductive lifespan of a woman. So we’re talking all of her periods.

One product. Can you imagine that? One product displacing eleven thousand products. Incredible. And then of course the underwear also lasts several years. It’s just dependent on how much you wear it. And so you can reuse it over and over again, which is do which displaces hundreds of pads. So for the environment, it is such an incredible win. And then also for our wallets, because you know

Because if you’re buying a product that could literally last every single period, now you might have to replace it as you found over eleven years and it depends on usage and so forth, but but uh it’s it’s incredible savings also. Like it’s just brings me so much peace of mind to know that I never have to do an emergency tampon run. I have five daughters, I never have to buy them any of the disposable products, you know, or keep extras around because they have their cups, they have their underwear, they wear them every day and they’re always taken care of.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (37:35)
Yeah, it is. I think my initial cup was like forty dollars Canadian and that’s all I’ve spent in the last 10 years. So I have saved probably no definitely thousands and thousands of dollars in addition to avoiding that waste. But that is that can also be a barrier. Like another barrier that we should talk about today is cost. you did mention period poverty earlier.

you know, reusable products can save a significant amount of money over our years of menstruation because they do replace repeated purchases. And that can make them potentially very powerful in the context of period poverty, but affordability over time is not the same as affordability today. So the upfront cost can still be very prohibitive. Even if the product itself is free, the reusable solution only works when there’s infrastructure to make it usable. So

I suppose what I’m trying to say is that it’s not just about period poverty isn’t just about affordability or product shortage. It’s more what does someone actually need in order to manage menstruations safely and with dignity? So how do you and Saaltz think about that contradiction when we talk about period poverty?

Cherie Hoeger (38:50)
We’re speaking the same language. I love the way that you’re thinking about it because we’ve done a lot of thought um and put put a lot of intentionality in our impact program for this reason. And you know, people have a lot of skepticism as to whether reusable products are the best products to end global period poverty. And to start with, period poverty is just a term that’s used to describe a lack of access to safe and reliable period products on the regular. And it generally affects people who live below the poverty line, who don’t have access at all to

disposable products who can’t find it because they live so rural or um or simply because the price of paying for disposable pad or you know box of pads can be more than the cost of their groceries for the month. And so they have to make these sacrifices. And it affects 500 million women and girls, which is over a quarter of the world that lives in this period of poverty. And so what do they do? Well, they use basically anything that absorbs anything they can find. A lot of times it’s banana leaves or

Or girls will tear paper from their school books while they’re at school if their period starts. Or they’ll tear bits of their mattress, so mattress padding, or old cloth and rags that can harbor bacteria. And sometimes there’s a lot of shame in drying these rags. And so the you know, they they often try to dry them in their homes and it just, you know, harbors this bacteria that can then cause infections.

So the realities of period poverty are so stark and it’s so important for us to talk about it and to look at it holistically, like you said, like what are the real solutions to solving this? When you talk about disposable products, they last a girl for one cycle.

And so there’s a lot of well-in intended companies that, you know, will do these big drives where they’ll, you know, put together these kits of disposable products, but it’s lasting them for that one cycle. It’s not a long-term sustainable solution. And this is where I have a lot of passion around reusable products because I truly believe they are the best answer to solving global period poverty because they’re long-lasting, they’re safe, you can reuse them again and again as long as they’re not lost.

So it’s a 95% adoption rate over all the countries that we work in. And people are surprised because, you know, people in the US and Canada maybe scared themselves to use these products. And so they think, okay, how how are other people using this? Well, number one, when you’re in such a dire circumstance and you want to go to school and you have no products to maintain your period, then you’re willing to go through that behavior change faster. And it’s often they find that it’s so much easier than they think it is.

Second is because they really are a gold standard solution. And let me let me tell you why. Cups take very minimal water to clean, less water than even reusable pads, because you simply give them a rinse and put them back in. And it’s something that that girls can carry in their backpacks and often just carry a little water bottle, right, with them instead of having to wash it like at a station when water is so limited, And so they’re an incredibly viable solution. And as long as you’re pairing it with education like we do.

then that success rate can be high. When whenever we we donate cups, we ensure that we are pairing with organizations, pairing our donations with organizations that have boots on the ground. So they have a a structure, a facility, they have staff members so that if people have questions about the products, then they can go talk to them. So we first train the staff members and we give them an allocation of products so that they can try it, so they can troubleshoot, so they can become evangelists. We

Are able to teach the people who are boots on the ground and they share it with their communities and they’re the resource that people can turn to. And that has been really the key to our success. And we allow them the flexibility of deciding how to distribute and how to be able to allocate those products. And then we continue to give them products ongoing. So it’s just not a one-off here and a one-off there.

Because that’s like a shotgun approach is what we call it, instead of a long term targeted, sustainable approach where you continue to provide like ongoing products for those that are entering menstruation for the first time. So we donate a lot more cups overall and primarily just cups. We don’t usually go discs because cups are are great overall and they do the job well. But then the underwear is also great for those that may have taboos around inserted products. You know, so you have different religions and demographics.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (43:04)
Yeah, yeah, the cultural and just or religious taboos around these things and how important it is to have community led initiatives that are doing the education piece.

Cherie Hoeger (43:14)
And one more thing I’ll say is that thinking about it holistically, you also have to look at what other barriers exist that are keeping women and girls from having a dignified period. And for us, water access and hygiene access was a big one. So one of our pillars is wash initiatives, which is water sanitation and hygiene. So for instance, when we found out that in rural Uganda, the people that we donated cups to were changing their cups out in the tall grass because they didn’t have any toilet facilities.

And then, you know, women and girls are usually the ones who are tasked to retrieve water every day and are usually need that water access for what we call the three Cs, cleaning, cooking, and caring for children. And because they usually carry those burdens, and they’re also carrying the the burden of water access. So we have built latrines in Uganda. So we’ve built four latrines that have private stalls for changing, and this was specifically for girls’ schools.

To be able to take that holistic approach and say we we want to keep girls in school. We’ve provided them the products and now we’re providing them the latrine and sanitation access to also keep them in school.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (44:19)
Mm-hmm. The yes, the water piece is so major. And I think that folks maybe don’t think about how simply having your period can mean missing school. And missing school alters the trajectory of your future. And one of the major drivers of, you know, positive climate action is the education of women and girls. And this is a huge piece of it. Yeah.

Cherie Hoeger (44:42)
Yes. Definitely one

of those S D Gs. Yeah.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (44:45)
I think where all this ultimately lands for me is with choice and agency. So at the end of all of this, the goal is not to convince every person that they have to use a reusable or decide there’s, you know, one best way, but it has to be something you can actually use and sustain. And, you know, it could be a combination of reusable and disposable products or or what have you. And, you know, disposables might be the most accessible choice. And

It just really comes down to having the options and the education and making sure people have real choices in the first place.

Cherie Hoeger (45:20)
I love that. Uh choice is is really what we aim for as well, is to give them options. This is why we offer the three types of reusable products so that people can figure out what’s best for their anatomies and then the different modalities that we do or donations so that they can, you know, be able to have those options that align with their belief systems, apply with their demographics and also their anatomies.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (45:41)
Yeah. Thank you so much, Shri. This has been great.

Cherie Hoeger (45:44)
Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (45:48)
Sustainable period care does not mean having to run out and buy a reusable today. It can mean learning about your options, trying something different when that makes sense for your body and your cycle, and using disposables when that’s what works. And of course, recognizing that access to safe, affordable period care is something that everyone deserves. So for your one small shift this week, take a look at the period product you already use and ask if there is a reusable option that you’re curious about.

Just learn a little more about it. Try and see if that makes sense for you. And if you’ve already switched to reusables that you love, consider supporting an organization working to make period care more accessible to people who do not currently have the same choices. If you want to learn more about the different menstrual care options we talked about today, head to sustainable in the suburbs.com/slash period care. I have all of my existing posts on cups, discs, period underwear, reusable pads, and lower waste disposable options gathered there all in one place.

Thanks again to Sheree for joining me today. As always, start where you are, use what you have, and live a little greener.

Thanks for tuning in to Sustainable in the Suburbs. Every small step adds up, and I’m so glad we’re doing this together. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can find me at sustainableinthesuburbs.com or at Sarah Robertson Barnes on all the things. Until next time, start where you are, use what you have, and live a little greener. This podcast is produced, mixed, and edited by Cardinal Studio.

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